The point of Japanese Luxury cars

"El Rivinado" (joeman856)
07/23/2015 at 17:03 • Filed to: None

This has been a point of contention and a question I’ve had for a while, and that is simply this. What’s the point of the Japanese luxury carmakers in this environment?

I understand that the Japanese luxury carmakers all started and they had their place in the market, but I have to ask what they offer today that others don’t?

Take Acura for example

The Legend was a car that laid the groundwork for the future and idea of Japanese Luxury cars, now I always never got the Legend, at least from a design perspective, but I did get it from a luxury perspective. The car offered Japanese reliability and low cost in a luxurious package. It had a place in the market, and when Acura was given the NSX, while it may not have been a roaring success, it proved that Japanese could also whip the Italians something fierce as well. Now though?

Nothing they’re making right now is all that special, they just seem like more uglier versions of Hondas, and there doesn’t seem to be anything unique separating them. Sure we have the new NSX, which I really do like, especially compared to the Ford GT, but considering how that car was vaporware for the past few years and a cocktease at best, I wonder if it will be any good. I’ll withhold my judgment until it gets released, but I’m not holding my breath hoping it’ll be the best thing ever.

Now let’s look at Lexus, Lexus made a name of itself for a good reason with the LS400

The LS400 succeeded for a damn good reason, it had more prestige than the American car makers, was more reliable than Jaguar, not as stuffy as Volvo, and more comfortable and less expensive than Ze Germans. It was the kind of car that could’ve appealed to an executive and a retiree, and it was the car that folks like Cadillac SHOULD have been making (I know Cadillac had the Brougham, but that wasn’t enough), it was a great car. But my problem is that Lexus shot itself in the foot with the ES, which set a bad precedent for the brand, it was big sales success sure, but it set some bad habits in motion, not helped by the styling becoming worse. Which has given us stuff like this

or this

Culminating in well, do I need to show it at this point?

But the big problem is, they ended up turning into Buick. They became the boring, safe, conservative choice that was driven by old people and people looking for a safe luxury car. Sure they tried more performance stuff, like the LF-A, but as Doug pointed out, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Now, let’s get into Infiniti, Christ almighty, what is up with Infiniti? They were the only car company that just shot themselves in the foot before the word “GO!” even appeared. The Infiniti Q45 may have been a good car, but it’s appearance left a lot to be desired, it’s ad campaigns were terrible, and the M30 was based on a car that was outdated by the time it appeared and the J30 was awkward looking. The only success I think Infiniti had that allowed it to carve a niche for itself was the G37, which looked distinct and gave them a place in the market. Now though? Other than that ugly crossover, what are they doing now? Or more importantly, why do they exist.

Look, I’m not trying to be negative, I understand these makes have their place and they make good cars, but I fail to understand why they exist now. Sure, they’re reliable, but what else do they offer. People with snob value will still buy German, people looking for cheap cost will go American, and people looking to stand out will go the British route. To me, you’ve got three brands that are in bad places. Acura has put all their eggs in one basket, but I’m not sure if that’s enough, Lexus is starting to get the same stink that permeated Cadillac through the 80s, and Infiniti is Japan’s Lincoln without any history or brand cachet to back it up for the possibility of a revival. It just seems like such an awkward thing, and this post is more confusion than anything, but I have to ask the question.

What about you guys? Can you explain why they’re still around?

DISCUSSION (29)

For Sweden > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:05

Imagine a luxury car that always works.

El Rivinado > For Sweden
07/23/2015 at 17:06

Wasn't that the point of Volvo's existence?

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:08

They are for people who want a car that starts every time and isn’t a complete maintenance nightmare, yet is luxurious and comfortable.

For Sweden > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:10

No, Volvos are also comfortable

x87172 > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:12

I’ll just leave this here...

Kinja'd!!!

dogisbadob > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:14

Kinja'd!!!

oooo a 6 wagon! Too bad they weren’t available with the 4-cylinder over here :(

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:14

Just as there are people that are brand loyal to the Germans, there are those loyal to Lexus. I agree with For Sweden with their reliability for people who don’t want huge service bills.

Lexus is making cars people want. The RC F and the new GS F. Based on Area, for me is Southern California suburbs, there’s more RXes and LXes than any German counterpart.

Another point for them being reliable is comparing their GX with Q7s, X5s and stuff. People say that the GX460 hasn’t been selling well, part of the reason is because it’s ass ugly. But another reason would be because literally every single GX470 from 2003-2009 is still on the road. I have one and I saw 4 of that generation in my commute. For people who don’t like changing cars every 5 years, I dare you to find a 12-year-old German SUV that you can trust wholeheartedly to get you from Point A to Point B every single day like you can with a Lexus or an Acura.

And Acura has been faltering, but notice how many TL owners there still are? I’ve owned a 2nd generation, and I’ve driven a 4th generation one. They’re damn nice cars even if they are FWD.

I hate how everyone’s general consensus right now seems to be let’s hate all the Japanese brands except Mazda.

El Rivinado > x87172
07/23/2015 at 17:14

Another point of contention, is having a reliable luxury car worth it if it looks like that?

El Rivinado > Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna
07/23/2015 at 17:19

It’s not that I hate these brands, and I do live in SoCal as well and have seen similar experiences. But that’s also because SoCal, for all the environmental talk, would get in a fit if you tried to take away their crossovers and SUVs. I also wasn’t referring to SUVs and Crossovers, anybody can have a crossover and SUV and have it sell well, it was more a point about “what do their CARS offer besides reliability?” And yes Lexus does have the F series, but again, why would people buy an F series if they can just have more “Brand name” with an M series instead? It’s not that I hate them, I’m just more confused about their role in the marketplace and what they offer other than reliability.

LongbowMkII > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:20

How can you explain that Lexus is like 80’s Cadillac? I don't think you understand Cadillac (and GM) in the 80s well enough to say that.

dogisbadob > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:20

You get the luxury and prestige to impress your friends but with the reliability you need to get to work every day :)

Also, there’s nothing wrong with the ES. They are good cars because the Camry each generation is based on is a good car, too. The 92-96 Camry/ES300 is the best car ever made.

The first-gen GS is a great-looking car and awesome. The second-gen looks like a caricature and a toy.

Acura really made a mistake by dropping their iconic names, and especially the entry level Intrgra that was 2/3 of their sales. The Legend really was a legend.

Infiniti had the G20. Awesome mix of luxury, prestige, reliability, sportiness, and economy. Too bad they don’t make them anymore. And the JDM name Primera is awesome, too, because primera means “first” which is appropriate for an entry level car, your first Infiniti.

El Rivinado > LongbowMkII
07/23/2015 at 17:27

Cadillac in the 80s became a joke, between the engines, the downsizing, the shift downmarket and the reliability problems, Cadillac was seen as an old person’s brand and more than that, a brand with no prestige. While Lexus may not have the same problems Cadillac had in the 80s, that similar perception of “Former top of the world brand that’s now seen as an old person’s car” has caused a huge image problem.

They may not seem similar at first, but they both follow the same idea. Both we're seen as the sort of go-to luxury car for anyone with a steady income, but over time, due to fluctuating market changes and a sort of stagnation in the image, coupled with the ever changing market place, both found themselves in a situation where just hearing their name was more likely to conjure up a Florida license plate than a well-off businessman. Lexus has the same IMAGE Cadillac had in the 80s, they have nowhere near the same problems, that's the point I was trying to get at.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:30

I’m not even sure how I begin to answer this.

If you can’t make a luxury car that handles like an E39 M5, your country should just give up on luxury cars?

The ES and MDX sell like hotcakes, Lexus’s entire lineup is very competitive right now, Infiniti has some competitive cars in the QX80 and Q50, and some genuinely good ones in the QX70 and Q70. Acura’s struggling a little in the sedan department, but so’s Lincoln. It’s got nothing to do with them being Japanese. Many Japanese luxury cars are fairly sporty, and are genuine competitors to their German counterparts without the snobbery and maintenance. Also, if everything was a case of “why do any other cars exist when XYZ is the best car in the category?” each segment would have only one car. Bottom line, they still exist because they make good cars and people buy a ton of them.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:30

People are obsessed with brand. And a lot of people trust the reliability of the Japanese.

Also that GS is a good looking car

El Rivinado > sm70- why not Duesenberg?
07/23/2015 at 17:37

I never said you should make a car that handles like an E39 M5 did I? Nor have I ever implied that, you know just as well as I do that that line of thinking is toxic and I don’t hold it in the slightest. I like my luxury cars soft riding and comfortable, and most of the time, that’s what these makes deliver.

I never tried to say that being Japanese was a bad thing, nor I said that being Japanese was a detriment, nor that they couldn’t be uncompetitive. Like I said, these brands were huge successes for a reason. It’s just, considering the marketplace, what can they offer besides reliability? Like it or not, this is a car market segment where snob value matters, and if all you got is reliability, people just won’t look at you with a passing glance. Again, they do have some competitive cars, but again I must ask, do they offer something that other similar cars from other makers don't as well?

LongbowMkII > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:41

All luxury brands are for old people.

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:42

Oh I see what you meant now. HAHA. Well, I view the luxury brands in certain categories, for this argument, I’ll use Mercedes, Lexus and BMW.

They’re all luxurious. So that’s not something that they can compare in. Lexus interiors are just as amazing in quality as Mercedes and BMW.

I consider that people buy Mercedes for the status and BMW for the handling and sportiness. People buy Lexuses over these two brands because they want reliability. THAT IS LITERALLY THEIR THING. What’s the point of buying a toaster other than the ability to golden brown bread?

Saying what’s the point of buying a Lexus besides reliability is like saying what’s the point of buying a BMW M car other than performance.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:43

All I can say is, they obviously offer more than reliability because they sell a ton of them. Also, 1. Not every luxury car buyer is a brand snob, and 2. Lexus has plenty of prestige associated with it. The bottom line is, every car has its merits, especially cars as well made as the Japanese. If I had to go through every Japanese model and name every reason why someone might pick that car over a competitor, we’d be here all night. But once again, they make good cars, and a lot of people want them, because not everyone wants the same thing, so the Japanese keep making them because they keep selling them. The fact that several people on here commented that they liked the cars you mentioned should tell you that they have a big following.

LongbowMkII > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:44

Does anyone? What does Mercedes offer at 70k that Acura doesn't?

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:49

Kinja'd!!!

Confession - I have a strange lust for these things. I think they’ve aged really well and are going to become a cult classic of sorts. Was horribly expensive new and not a practical car at all - but in the used market I would love to pick up a clean one sometime in the nearish future for leisurely weekend rides in every now and then.

WesBarton89 - The Way to Santa Fe > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 17:49

As the resident multiple Japanese luxury car owner (currently DD a 2000 Infiniti I30, have owned a 1998 Mazda Millenia S and 1997 Infiniti J30), let me give my piece here.

Reliability for one - Two out of three of those cars had over 200,000 miles on them (the I30 and the Mazda) when I bought them.

In fact, the I30 is approaching 258,000 miles now. I bought in late February, had it tagged, registered, inspected, and insured by mid-March. It had a shade under 250k when I bought it. I paid $800 for it. So far, what I’ve replaced is the following:

Battery, brakes, master cylinder, muffler, spark plugs, lower control arm bushing, tie rod end, CV boot, headlight bulb, side marker bulb, and the speed sensor, and it’s had an alignment and two oil changes. It also came with four almost brand new tires that are currently on it. It still has some minor issues, but it’s really something to start it up every day, without fail, and have it run like a top for the most part.

I would say I have, included in the purchase price, less than $2,000 total. That’s pretty good. And all of the electrics work. That includes all windows, the sunroof, the electric rear shade, the CD player, cassette player, all radio functions, automatic climate control, both trip computers, and even the memory seat and all power seat functions. All of that is original. The engine and powertrain are all original. And guess what? This is a 15 year old car, in an area where roads are salted regularly, probably from November through March, and there’s only the slighest evidence of rust. It’s so comfortable, and it does everything I need it to do, while also being very luxurious for a 15 year old car with over a quarter million miles. I need to replace the catalytic converter soon, as well as the coils, but that’s nothing major. The biggest issue is a possible ECU issue, but even that shouldn’t be too bad. And it’s always a nice feeling to open the driver’s side door and have the seat move back to make entry easier.

Case number two, the Mazda Millenia S.

I bought it in February 2011, with 201,000 miles on the odometer. $1100 for the car. Paid cash. Replaced a headlight and the battery. The only issues I really ran into was a constant CEL (which eventually burnt out, but these cars were notorious for the chronic light). It was a MAP sensor, which I never got around to replacing, as well as a catalytic converter going bad at about 206,000 I think.

The body was straight, and free of dents (until a wheel falling off at 45 mph dented the fender a week into ownership), and while the leather was worn, it wasn’t awful. The car ran quite well. I ran it on two down and back trips to downtown Baltimore twice in a week. (About 150 miles one way) It never failed to let me down.

Ownership was short lived in that one though, due to a sudden short in the battery cable causing a fire in the engine. This was at about 211k miles, that same September. I loved and missed that car greatly, still do. Everything worked on it pretty well as well. The radio LCD was burnt out, but I still was able to manage. The supercharged Miller cycle 2.3L V6 was pretty punchy, and I loved that supercharger whine. Small for a V6, but it performed better than some of the bigger V6s I’ve driven. (That includes the late 90s GM 3800, GM 3.1L, and the Duratec V6 in my Taurus, though I’ve had others)

Number three, the J30. You call it awkward looking. I call it unique. Yes, interior space was a little on the cramped side, but the fun of hooning a RWD V6 small sedan is quite paramount. It was quite well loaded, and when I got it, it had 162,506 miles on it, back in June of 2010. I paid $3,000 to a dealership for it, paid at $1,000 down, and $200/month for 10 months at 0% interest. Sadly, I did not make it that far.

The car had a blowout on the freeway coming back from Baltimore (again with Baltimore), and I was going about 70mph or so, and with it being RWD, and me not being used to it, I lost control and totaled it. It had been 6,000 miles exactly that I’d had it. This was in November of 2010. But again, dead reliable, never gave me too many issues, outside of normal wear and tear on a vehicle of that time period. The sunroof didn’t work, I had to replace the window motor, and change the spark plugs. Beyond that, it was great. When it got totaled, the insurance estimate was almost $1,000 higher than what the price for the car was.

All three of these cars, of the 10 or 11 I’ve owned, since I first started driving (less years than the number of cars), are my favorites. They’ve been comfortable, reliable, and inexpensive. I drive older Japanese luxury cars primarily because they have a lot of the same features as the Germans, without the reliability issues, maintenance, or prices.

That’s the point of them, in my mind. You get a ton of features without a ton of headache.

TheHondaBro > sm70- why not Duesenberg?
07/23/2015 at 18:06

The TLX is selling really well actually. It's the RLX that needs help.

TwoToneLoser > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 18:13

Volvos existed because the swedes needed something to drive. They only recently have attempted to move upmarket. (and the cars got worse...do what you know, Volvo!)

Here, for example is an old 240 door panel. Note the blueness of it all, with exposed screws and clips, and the premium dryer vent speaker cover above the luxurious window crank.

Kinja'd!!!

Textured Soy Protein > El Rivinado
07/23/2015 at 18:41

Can you explain why they’re still around?

Because people buy them.

El Rivinado > Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna
07/23/2015 at 23:15

That. Actually makes sense. I actually do understand. Just like for some people if you were to ask them, "Why buy a Cadillac?", the answer would be "Cause it's a Cadillac". There may be other factors certainly, but there's something they do right that no other car can. I understand it now.

El Rivinado > LongbowMkII
07/23/2015 at 23:16

Try telling that to Audi and Porsche.

LongbowMkII > El Rivinado
07/24/2015 at 07:03

They know this, would you like more speeds in your automatic transmission?

LongbowMkII > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
07/24/2015 at 07:11

A reliable used SL? I can dig it.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > LongbowMkII
07/24/2015 at 12:24

I’ve heard of some people swapping in a manual transmission off a Supra as well...although that big V8 is pretty lazy I’m sure it could be woken up a little bit too, if desired.